2012 – Preston/McDurmon Debate

Last night, 8/12, The Blue Point Bible Church (www.bluepointbiblechurch.org) began to review the 2012 debate between Dr. Don Preston and Joel McDurmon. See attached graphic. 

We stopped for the evening at the 1:11:00 mark of video 1. Basically Don’s opening affirmative and Joel’s negative. 

Below you will find the mp3/audio files to either begin or continue the review with us. 

  1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ_cRMcjsEc&list=PLJd7CUXBUJgyvQiFDppXSV77OBI3tqVcI&index=6
  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkXh-bKTnDY&list=PLJd7CUXBUJgyvQiFDppXSV77OBI3tqVcI&index=7
  3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SkN9T_P2JU&list=PLJd7CUXBUJgyvQiFDppXSV77OBI3tqVcI&index=8

Also, you can review some post-debate articles Dr. Preston had written at the following link, https://bibleprophecy.com/?s=mcdurmon

Lastly, consider joining us this coming Monday & Friday on the Preterist Power Hour at 10:30am either live through Zoom or Call-in, or watch through The Power of Preterism Network’s Facebook page. 

#PowerOfPreterism 

8/12 – #FlashbackFriday – PPH

This week, Pastor Michael Miano, director of The Power of Preterism Network (www.powerofpreterism.com) provided 2 days of an “hour of power” – Monday and Friday. Monday’s & Friday’s at 10:30am eastern will continue to be the promoted days of the Preterist Power Hour, the rest of the week provisions of possible hours of power, resources, links, and more. 

8/8 PPH  – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TcyKwCeXYk

8/12 PPHhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruXBLZ9WpoA


Here are some mentioned resource and details for your further edification: 

Preston/Gregg Debate Review & Link – https://powerofpreterism.wordpress.com/2022/08/11/review-of-the-2013-preston-gregg-debate/


“Gotta question for you. What makes you suppose the New Jerusalem was established on the same day that the Old one was destroyed?  It would seem to me that Daniel gives the 1335 figure as the time to be waited for. Not the 1290 days…. What do you think.  The wedding of the Lamb would have been celebrated on or after the day of tabernacles don’t you think?”
– Steve Magua 

https://www.facebook.com/pastor.s.magua/videos/1116738675583416/

https://powerofpreterism.wordpress.com/2022/08/03/parousia-day-new-jerusalem-day/

https://adammaarschalk.com/tag/new-jerusalem/?fbclid=IwAR1ev568_bboJ7Ou75bjZyjBON69RQxyUwCi4OrurYd46T-13fpR7YnjO9A

https://adammaarschalk.com/2016/03/26/long-island-conference-what-was-the-purpose-of-the-end-times-part-2/

  • T Everett Denton – Since someone asked me about Daniel 12:12 yesterday, I thought I’d share a quote by the one I tend to agree with concerning the 1290 & 1335 days. After spending like 14 pages on this, the late Duncan McKenzie wrote the following in summary: “The fall of Jerusalem marked the shattering of the Jewish nation (Dan. 12:7); it happened 1290 days after the coming of the one made Israel desolate (Dan. 9:27 & 12:11). Adding 45 days to the fall of Jerusalem (which equals the 1,335 days of Dan. 12:12) brings one to the 24th of Tishri, the first day past the completion (and I believe the fulfillment) of the Feast of Tabernacles / Ingathering in AD 70. This was the last of Israel’s yearly feasts; it was fulfilled in the spiritual ingathering together of God’s people at the parousia in AD 70 (cf. Mat. 24:30-34, 2 The. 2:1-4, Rev. 14:14-16). The blessedness of those who stayed true to this time of the end of the age (cf. Mat. 24:13) is the same blessedness that those who participate in the marriage supper of the Lamb were to possess (cf. Dan. 12:12 w/ Rev. 19:9)” (p. 228 of “The Antichrist and the Second Coming” Vol. 1). I have a nearly impossible time NOT seeing this as being correct due to the connection with the feast of tabernacles, the feast of resurrection. 

WHEN WAS THE END?
PART 1 by David Gates

In the event that the 10th of Av, 70 AD was the “last day” of Daniel 12’s 1335 days, and “all was fulfilled” the second the last temple stone fell, we would expect to find certain other things to follow, which would be easy to prove/disprove, and some of those things are…

1) We should have NO OTHER specific prophecies which extend beyond that day…

a) Daniel 9 clearly shows that the destruction of the “holy city” was part of prophecy…

a1) In order for the “Temple Only” theology to stand, the “holy city” would have needed to be destroyed either when the Temple fell or before…

a2) The only thing one would need to do to disprove that the “last day” happened the day the last temple stone was thrown down is to demonstrate that the “holy city” was destroyed AFTER the day the temple fell…

a3) VI Wars Ch 4.5 says the temple fell on the 9th/10th of Av…

a4) VI Wars Ch 8.1 says that the Upper part of Jerusalem had not even began to be attacked on the 20th of Av…

a5) THEREFORE: either the “holy city” became spiritual the second the temple fell (and the “holy city” being destroyed was never fulfilled, thus falsifying preterism until the day that God’s new “holy city” will be destroyed, making the fulfilled prophecy true on one hand, while making Isaiah a false prophet for showing the New Jerusalem as everlasting in a manner of speaking, Is 9, Is 65)

OR

The “holy city” WAS destroyed AFTER the temple fell, thus falsifying the claim that “all was fulfilled” the second the last temple stone fell…

Thoughts regarding Parousia Sunday/ New Jerusalem Day 


Preston/McDurmon Debate (2012) Review @ BPBC 

Review of the 2013 Preston – Gregg Debate

Written by Michael Miano (www.MianoGoneWild.Wordpress.com)

In my review of the first portion of the 2013 Don Preston – Steve Gregg Debate (Don in the affirmative and Steve in the negative), Don made the case for the necessary correlation between the eschatological events in the Thessalonian letters to be building upon what Jesus Christ explained about his coming, the judgement, and the kingdom during his earthly ministry, see texts such as Matthew 16:27-28, as well as Matthew chapters 24-25. Don explained the Thessalonian texts as using the pattern of suffering and vindication that can be found all throughout the Scriptures, however the time-texts found in the specific New Testament writings compel us to see that they are speaking about a specifically-designated event, something soon to come (ie., the coming of the Lord as depicted through the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple). Steve responded by acknowledging that Don makes good arguments and good cases for the verses he is bringing up, but Steve said he is “not fully persuaded”. Much of Steve’s negative was spend picking apart details in the text that could be or could not be AD 70, however he was not able to make a specific case to prove a case against what Don was connecting. It very much went along with the line of reasoning Don often says, “If not, why not”. From the first session of the debate it was clear that Steve Gregg could not tell us why not Full Preterism, he simply admitted necessary further study and that what Don said could be right, despite his being careful and hesitant to see the correlation and the “constituent elements” in the texts. 


Consider noticing: 

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16  corresponds to Matthew 23:29-39 

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 corresponds to 2 Thessalonians 1:3 – 10 

Consider the sufferings being brought upon the churches in Acts chapters 17-18 and Galatians 4:29-31

Consider the larger context, the “hope of Israel” made through the prophet Isaiah (see, Isaiah 2:10, 19, 21; 66: 15-16, 24)


And that’s just a small portion of what Dr. Preston demonstrated through his affirmative in the debate, namely that the New Testament texts are speaking to the particular coming of the Lord, coming of the Kingdom, that Jesus Christ detailed during His ministry and cannot be stretched to be a general, some other coming of Jesus, beyond the scope of time-statements given. When we consider the details (context, pronouns, time-statements) in each of the texts it becomes abundantly clear they are speaking to the imminent eschatological coming of Jesus to bring destruction upon the persecutors (those outside of covenant/kingdom) and vindication to those who are in covenant/kingdom – the texts themselves help you to see who are those considered in covenant and those considered out of covenant. 

I continued into the second portion of the debate wherein Steve Gregg sought to offer an affirmative for his belief that the resurrection of the dead and the 2nd coming of Jesus  Christ are in the future . He began by asserting that there are “comings of God” in the past, that he is a partial preterism, so some things are fulfilled in AD 70, some before AD 70, and some in the future. He admitted that distinguishing passages is “not the easiest” for him”, that the “resurrection of the dead passages is in the future”; because there is more than one kind of thing described as the resurrection of the dead (Eph. 2 and Col. 2) and he asserted that church history points to a physical resurrection. He connected the resurrection of the dead to the sin and death of Adam in Eden (Genesis chapters 2-3) to which Dr. Preston began enumerating the difficulties with forcing a physical death in the garden of Eden and the resulting questions that come with physical death being a result of sin. For example; 

Physical death is the enemy of the child of God? 

Sin brings death, but Jesus removed the sin, therefore, believers should die?  

Why do believers still physically die? 

Did Jesus die as a substitute? If so….what’s going on here? 


In talking through Bible texts such as John 5, Acts 3, and 1 Corinthians 15 quite a few thoughts were shared.  

Acts 3

  • What is the creation? What is the restoration? 
  • Consider the correlation to John the Baptizer (restorer)
  • Peter pulls from the OC prophets 
  • Time of restoration is time of reformation 

John 4-5 

  • The hour is coming and now is…
  • John 5:28-29 cf. Daniel 12:2
    Where did Jesus get His doctrine?
  • The hour coming and now is….cf. John 4  

Steve could not negate the details that Don pointed out in John 5, as connected to John 4 (rather it seems is a confusing way he actually further affirmed them), then he went on to say that while the resurrection of the dead doctrine is the “hope of Israel” that is not the whole truth…”I understand it, it’s not all about Israel”. cf. Acts 24, 26, Romans 9 and Romans 15. After Don explained how the rabbi’s Hebraic understanding also demonstrates the consistency of what the Full Preterist view brings out, to which Steve responded, “I don’t care what the rabbi’s have to say, Jesus didn’t care, so I don’t care. I am concerned with what the Bible says” 

Don further tried to show that “The promise of the resurrection is the eschatological hope of Israel…cannot be seperated from Israel’s festal calendar” and that  divorces his thoughts and theology from the prophetic context of the Old Covenant hopes. 

Don asserted Bible texts that showed his issue – “How can that which has no end come to an end?” (see, Dan. 2:44; Luke 1:32; Rev. 11:15; Heb. 12). 

Steve argues that the Kingdom of God has no end, however it has phases, and he believes the current phrase will come to and end at the 2nd coming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead. He explained an analogy to when King Saul was alive and David was yet to be recognised as king, that is our current place in the Kingdom of God. Steve’s view demands the “universal reconization of Christ” as a future event, when “every knee shall bow”, without having a proper Scriptural and contextual outlining of such a view. 


Even after watching the whole debate and listening to the entire Q&A, I can’t help but wonder how and why Steve would put his understanding of Christ coming in AD 70. What was this ‘coming’ about? What OT and NT texts should be connected to this and which ones should (who and what makes that distinction and is it consistent?). Can study and consistent correlating texts speaking about coming, judgement, and resurrection clarify this?  If not, why not? What exactly did the AD 70 coming accomplish, if anything, beyond the cross? Does he not understand th


For any person trying to hold to or find issue with “Partial Preterism”, this is a great debate to review. The inconsistencies and lack of contextual response from the “Partial Preterist” view is on full display. However, it also seems as though Steve Gregg would deflect from such consistency as he often mentioned during the debate that these were “his views”. 

Review the debate at the following link – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaSot6Yp4VqKsWOHk89ZejsJ9q_HoEYv1

8/3 – PPH Interview w/ Micah Stephens

On 8/3, we welcomed author and Bible teacher Micah Stephens to the Preterist Power Hour. You can review the podcast on YouTube at the following link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq8-lxxAWzQ


A previous interview that was had with Micah and his wife on YouTube that was mentioned on the podcast can be viewed at the following link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdE4e1rDfQ&t=1458s


Micah shared his testimony with us, how he came to see the logic and consistency of Preterism in the Scriptures, and mentioned his books.

You can learn more about and purchase Micah’s books at the following link – https://www.amazon.com/Micah-J-Stephens/e/B084L7CXLG?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1659586854&sr=8-1

Visit Micah’s YouTube channel, “Preterist Perspectives” at the following link – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLl6J4NmxgqcWbWPO0NS8WA/featured


Lastly, in line with the conversation about hell, we encourage you to visit Pastor Mike Miano’s resource published a couple of years ago regarding “Summarizing Hell”.

8/2 – PPH Interview w/ Pastor Jamey Escamilla

On Tuesday, 8/2 – Pastor Jamey Escamilla of New Covenant Church of El Campo joined with us for the Preterist Power Hour. You can review the podcast on YouTube at the following link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06nBY3Ej0ao&t=83s


We talked quite a bit about the transition of covenants and the beauty of the New Covenant. Pastor Jamey shared his influences, thoughts about Preterism, and was open about some of the things that keep him in the “partial – preterist” camp.

Also, Pastor Jamey mentioned his ministry efforts, his books, and his desire and exhortation for each of us to “Learn the Word of God. Value the teaching in your life”.


Pastor Jamey’s books – https://www.amazon.com/s?i=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3AJamey+Escamilla&s=relevancerank&text=Jamey+Escamilla&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1

New Covenant Church of El Campo – https://www.newcovenantchurchelcampo.com/

New Covenant Way – https://www.newcovenantway.com/


Also mentioned:

  1. Tithinginfo.com
  2. (1) Michael Miano on the “thousand years” – https://www.buzzsprout.com/11630/308620-a-thousand-words?fbclid=IwAR0n59-oFOiglIACGdmqwmHZtjoukRVnRWHR3ZxKTVEpCp-IFyEYLtXlL1I
  3. (2) Michael Miano on the “thousand years” – https://www.buzzsprout.com/11630/331360-revelation-20-the-thousand-years-clarified?fbclid=IwAR13adGwq8TW2rnduMs9hTnGPGQXqZgkkukEpX-wCIdmp_7zb45u7nZ6Elk

Parousia Day/ New Jerusalem Day

This Sunday, August 7th, 2022, we hope to hear that all congregations and believers in Fulfilled Eschatology, the power of Preterism, and those that understand the significance of the destruction of the Temple and the surrounding city of Jerusalem in AD 70, celebrate Parousia Day aka New Jerusalem Day. 

Parousia? New Jerusalem? What’s that? Visit the following link to read an article by Adam Maarschalk – https://adammaarschalk.com/tag/new-jerusalem/?fbclid=IwAR1ev568_bboJ7Ou75bjZyjBON69RQxyUwCi4OrurYd46T-13fpR7YnjO9A

Some celebrate by wearing purple to symbolize royalty – as we are now the Temple of the living God! Some sing songs about the presence of Christ in us. Some teach about identity and being One with Christ. Some like to eat Italian (or) Greek food as the Church expanding into Greece and Rome, others eat Middle Eastern foods to remember fulfillment in the Jewish context. All of this and more. 

Perhaps we can encourage you to take a picture of yourself, or your congregation, wearing purple or sharing a meal this Sunday. Make a social media post about the power of His presence! Use the following hashtags to promote your efforts; 

#ParousiaDay

#NewJerusalemDay

7/29- Preterist Power Hour & Resources  

You can review today’s podcast of the Preterist Power Hour at the following link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDeml91Ub7A


Here are a variety of resources mentioned on the podcast: 

TPPN Promo Video – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEm_yyqqitk&t=12s

PreteristVoice.org 

Jonathan Sacks book review 

2012 Defiance Conference “Eschatology Debate” – 

Video clip from Charle’s Meek – https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=66&v=1EacWyM7FDw&feature=youtu.be

Book Review – https://mianogonewild.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/true-faith-fulfilled-hope-review-of-charles-meeks-book/

Ward Fenley -Invisible King/ Invisible Kingdom 


Announcements 

Friday – 8pm – Preterist Pastors Conference Call 

Mon. 8/1 – 10:30am 

Tues, 8/2 – 10:30am – Jamey Escamillla 

Wed., 8/3 – 11am – Micah Stephens

7/25 – Preterist Power Hour & Resources

On today’s Preterist Power Hour (7/25), Michael Miano shared a host of resources and brought us into discussion regarding the dating of Revelation and criticism’s of Full Preterism that have been given by Dr. Voddie Baucham of Founders Ministries. Discussion was also had with listeners of the PPH podcast. 

Watch/listen to the podcast yourself at the following link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbfxgqIZjyw


Also, consider the following resources and links that were also mentioned (and will be highlight on the sporadic podcasts offered through the week); 

Be sure to join us this Friday at 10:30am for the Preterist Power Hour “Freestyle Friday”/ “Flashback Friday”, as we further review the links above and more. 

Also, this Friday, 7/29, at 8pm est. we will have a Preterist Pastors Conference Call. Join the session through Zoom or call/in (info below). 

Zoom code – 698 689 7086

Zoom link – https://us02web.zoom.us/j/6986897086

Call in # –  1 (646) 558 – 8656

7/15 – PPH – #Freestyle #Flashback Friday

On today’s #FreestyleFriday/ #Flashback Friday podcast of the Preterist Power Hour we offered review, specifically of; 

  • Bible interpretation 
  • Ask A Christian podcast comments
  • 2019 Preterist Pilgrim Weekend

You can review the podcast at the following link – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9OLsfBBkUs


The #ThinkingThroughThessalonians Sermon Series can be accessed at the following link, https://mianogonewild.wordpress.com/2022/07/15/thinkingthroughthessalonians-sermon-series/


Consider continued review of the 2019 Preterist Pilgrim weekend we can do by visiting the following link (below are my review notes), https://powerofpreterism.wordpress.com/2019/07/19/review-of-ppw-2019-preterist-pilgrim-weekend/


TimeHop – 4 years ago – “Brainstorming while at PRI: What can/should be done in the “Pretertist Movement” to maintain challenge, clarity, and conviction regarding the Power of an in Preterism?” 

  • John Noe – Major addressing of what post-fulfillment reality is all about.
  • Howard Davies – Perhaps our own confession of faith 
  • Rob Mitchell – Develop leadership committed to a measure of unity


Kyle Elliot – A Priest Forever; Ps. 110

Adding this to my “resurrection texts” 

“From every ‘angle’, Ps. 110 is Messianic and emphasizes the victory of the priest-king over His enemies at the Day of His power and the confirmation of His reign and priesthood. The Day of power and wrath secures His reign and priesthood, it does not end it”. – Kyle Elliot 


“Christ’s New Covenant will never go out of business” – Dr. Don K. Preston 


Rod MacArtuhur

In that generation we saw the 2nd Exodus take place with wonders and blood. The two responses that came from all of this were 1 – what does this mean? 2 – these men are just drunk. Those who properly discerned the event asked, “What shall we do?” and they repented, committed to Jesus and were saved from that corrupt generation.


“Christianity is not about saying, it is about doing”. – Daniel Rogers 

After highlighting the nature of God’s Kingdom, how things were fulfilled, Daniel went on to detail ways we can live in fulfillment. He made the following points regarding the peace of God versus the peace of the world;

Peace of God surpasses understand (Phil. 4:7); peace of the world is conventional
Peace of God makes us fools to the world (1 Cor. 1:18); peace of the world makes one “wise” to the world
Peace of God comes through knowledge of God (John 17:3); peace of world comes through bombs and military victory,

In his second message, Daniel made note of 4 levels of interpreting the Bible – literal, deeper, comprehensive, and mystery. He noted in understanding the Biblical narrative that, “Israel was not chosen to the exclusion of the world but to the entire world’s inclusion (cf. Genesis 12)”. He further noted that only through Jesus Christ can one see the true intention of the Law (cf. 2 Corinthians 3).


William Bell – The Hour of Glory 


Lastly, there will be no Preterist Power Hour next week, 7/18 – 22, however beginning on Mon. 7/25, there will be live broadcasts on Mondays & Fridays at 10:30am eastern, however Tuesday through Thursday, unless there is an interview or otherwise schedule show, you can expect podcasts to be hosted and uploaded prior to 12pm eastern.

The Power of Preterism Network Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/The.Power.of.Preterism.Network

The Power of Preterism YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLOAln92zuacusIlDspOZVg

7/13 – PPH – #WisdomWednesday 

Quite a bit of wisdom you can glean and share from recent podcasts of the Preterist Power Hour. 

On 7/5 we had Dr. D Robert Pike, Living in Truth, join us for an interview of the Preterist Power Hour. We even had Dr. John Noe on the podcast too! Listen to the discussion in review at the following link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shU83gzewG8&t=1229s

On 7/11, we began our new daily idea of the Preterist Power Hour. On Mondays & Fridays, Pastor Mike Miano will host the podcast at 10:30am est, Tuesday through Thursday will be sporadic podcasts. Consider listening to the #MissionalMonday podcast of PPH wherein we outlined a host of studies, resources, and ideas for the week. Click on the following link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQvoVxk6PBo

On 7/13, Pastor Mike provided a response to recent thoughts shared about him, Preterism, and Biblical interpretation on the ‘Ask A Christian’ podcast. Review Pastor Mike’s thoughts at the following link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gacmzSt8WVs

Tomorrow, Pastor Mike has encouraged us to review the 2019 PPW and he will share thoughts non the #ThrowbackThursday podcast of PPH. Visit the following link to review 2019 PPW links and notes, https://powerofpreterism.wordpress.com/2019/07/19/review-of-ppw-2019-preterist-pilgrim-weekend/

Also, consider joining us Friday morning at 10:30am est for a #FreestyleFriday, welcoming discussion about these resources, any resources, ideas, thoughts, questions, and comments. 

The Power of Preterism Network Facebook page

Zoom Meeting ID – 698 689 7086 

Call in # – 1 (646) 558 – 8656